5 clicks to change layer name?

Hi,

Before anyone says anything, I am aware of F2, but it is besides the point.

I find the layer panel in Rhino 8 quite inconsistent. Both visually and experience wise. I will probably make a separate thread of the UI.

But talking about UX, specifically renaming a layer is madness.

  1. Double clicking on a layer name at normal speed makes that layer Current.
  2. Double clicking VERY slowly allows you to edit the layer name. I don’t use this because it is SO slow.
  3. Triple clicking extremely fast might get you into layer name edit mode. (not to mention triple click is always super awkward to do).
  4. If you do you 1. and set it as current, it deselect the layer. This means that you gotta select it again. 3 clicks already. In some cases, which I can’t tell why, one extra click will get you into name edit. But in other cases, this 4th click is ignored and you need an extra 5th to access the name edit mode.

These days I just click like a madman until I get into the name edit mode.

I think there should be a difference in what clicking does in these three regions.
image

A. Works fine. One click sets the layer as current.
B. Single click selects the layer. Ok. Double click should enter name edit mode. Not set it as current.
This the the way layer renaming works in Sketchup, Cinema4D, Blender and probably any program out there, even Rhino itself in other parts of its UI. Double clicking on a name lets you edit the name. If needed triple click could set it as current instead (but not ideal).
C. Right now C is equal to B, which not only does it make no sense UI wise, as it is fundamentally different to B, but it is also a lost opportunity to declutter the functionally of zone B. If zone B changes to rename with double click, this zone could stay as it currently is with double click to set current.

I think a lot could be simplified if the only thing that let you set the layer as current was the Current column. There is honestly no need for more.

In any case, layer renaming by clicking should be way easier and intuitive IMO. I am not a UX designer so probably you can think of better ways.

6 Likes

This has always annoyed me but it’s the same in V7 as V8 as far as I can tell, nothing has changed there. McNeel has always argued that the double click>current is wanted behavior. It has not always been this way, in my copy of Rhino 1.0 here, only clicking in the current checkbox makes a layer current. Of course the layers dialog wasn’t even non-modal in Rhino 1.0. The change probably happened in Rhino 3 or so.

I do see that as different in V8.

Right click on the layer and select “rename”

Yep, got that, thanks.
RH-78854 Layer: Double-click leaves layer unslected

-Pascal

@snelson

images

We can have that still by clicking on the empty space of the layer name. When you click on the name, where the letters are, you get the name edit.

In any case, there is a whole thing going about clicks not being registered that is quite annoying and needs addressing.

Also the difference in results with different click speeds is quite confusing too.

My humble apology. Obviously, you are a master and expert with Rhino. Your social skills could use some work though.

1 Like

@snelson

I am giving feedback on the user experience of the layer panel, I am not asking any questions nor need help with anything.

That is why I said this at the start of the post.

I thought people could extrapolate, guess I was wrong. Just to clarify, exactly the same applies to Right-Click > Rename. BESIDES THE POINT.

3 Likes

Right clicking on an object to rename it is pretty much standard in all programs. You were whining about taking “5 clicks” and I gave you, and anyone else who reads the thread. a method to do it in two. So, just what is the point?

FWIW, to save space in the Layers panel, users turn off this column. Since you can easily set a layer as current by double-clicking and easily see which layer is current because the name is bold, there’s really no use for that column…
-wim

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I think that is kind of the crux of the issue. Why do we need double click set current if we have a dedicated column for it?

I get there are many ways to skin a cat, but in this case, it is competing with another common feature which is double click to rename.

For about 7 years I have done this:

Reduce the Current column to its minimum, that way I can still see the ‘Tick’ while being able to set current with one single click.
image

So, are you suggesting that double-click-to-make-current disabled if there is a checkbox column visible? I doubt, realistically, that will happen. Or remove double-click altogether (also a non starter I would say) or?

-Pascal

I would vote too for double-clic to rename.
I use the checkmark column to set current layer.

4 Likes

I did not get you.

In any case, all I am saying is that currently renaming layers with click alone (without using F2 and no Rename menu) is a pain, and there is no clear method to go about it. It is not intuitive for old nor new users.

I am saying that the UX of the layer panel, specifically around layer renaming is bad and it could use a nice modern fine tuning.

I believe that the issue partially stems from the current functionality tied to the double-click set current, and reconsidering this aspect might open some room for making the experience better for the user.

Lastly, I am also saying that that layer panel works erratically, sometimes completely missing click inputs from the user.

Hello Wim
I know you answer quickly and correctly to many, many posts
Thanks for your precious help

But I do agree with both of you

  1. The Current column has no need (wim)
  2. Renaming a layer is a nightmare (Shynn Sup)

I’m OK for using F2 standard key, no problem
But have you tried once you are editing layer name to double click on the name itself once you are editing it ?
A DoubleClick for renaming purpose (standard operation) selects all the characters
More and better, it sometimes selects part of the name if made out of many different words separated by spaces, commas, underscores…

But in Rhino UI when you are editing the name if you UNHAPPILY double-click to select the name (WHILE you are editing it) It quits the renaming process and sets the layer as current.
WTF
Sorry to be rude, but happened so many times, I dare not renaming anymore :frowning:

Try please try.
Try renaming to, moving your cursor - with your mouse - in the name do edit partially the name.
And let me know if you don’t feel clumsy…

So yes
Double click to set current
F2 to rename, BUT within the renaming process DoubleClick SHOULD NOT set current

For the rest Rhino UI is real cool

Hope this will help

Yes, and it also makes sense across entire Rhino’s interface. Named views, material names, linetypes, even text objects.

I think double click to set-current is still useful thought. I think making that available in every empty space along the layer’s row, pretty much like Windows has additional options when clicking on empty space on the File Explorer.

Next regression…

This behavior is clearly wrong in V8.
In V7 it works as expected.
So it is a bug.

I’m fine with double-clicking to make a layer current.


Also missing is the ability to select layers with a rectangle.
Another regression.

Yes, I did not say anything about that not to mix problems…

who actually wished for a double click to set layer active instead of being able to rename the layer?? i can not recall any instance at least if that would have been such a hot topic i might have stumbled over it… sorry if i indeed missed it.

but can we not leave it as it always has been at least in Rhino for Mac till V7? and still is in any other application i could think off.

It’s been that way since before MacRhino existed - and thus also before this Discourse forum existed. I don’t have anything previous to V5 installed anywhere anymore, so I don’t know when it got put in place - maybe V3… Be nice to be able to turn that behavior off, but I’m in the minority looks like.

1 Like