14 month later: Is Rhino V8 finally useable for us? My table stakes list

[anon (am)]

@gustojunk

Question for you: Do you think it makes sense, that I ,a paid customer, of a product that shipped 16 months ago, should be the one pointing this stuff out? I’m not talking about one random bug here, I’m talking about a multitude of cases of unpolished, unchecked (or barely checked) and untested (or barely tested) work.

Multitude is the correct term. I put in a lot of effort doing the same some months ago and gave up. I have to stick with Rhino 7 indefinitely.

[Japhy]

We eat bugs for breakfast and appreciate everyone reporting. Some bugs are easier than others, I submitted this one yesterday and the fix is ready for testing. If we can repeat it, we do our best to get it resolved in a timely manner.

[stevebaer]

@anon

I put in a lot of effort doing the same some months ago and gave up.

I added a test command for you for the feature you were requesting last month. Have you had a chance to try it?

[stevebaer]

@gustojunk

When I use Gumball, sometimes right after using it, the entire session just hangs frozen for a few seconds; I still have control of the mouse, but nothing in the viewport moves or updates. This is not good.

I wonder if this is the object properties panel. It does an awful lot of work when things change in the document. I would be curious to know if you see this behavior when the object properties panel is not visible. If it is to blame, I can try to optimize this.

[edit] I’m going to investigate seeing if I can get the object properties to notice this specific situation and skip rebuilding itself.

[gustojunk (Gustavo Fontana)]

Hi @stevebaer,

@stevebaer

If you have an object you need to explode and rejoin to force fixing of the shading, Jeff and I would love to see it.

Sure, I’ll keep an eye out for this, and when I find it again, I’ll save you a file with just that part. If when I save with that part alone does not show me the problem, I’ll have to give you my full ~1GB file.

Re: Push-Pull

@stevebaer

Same goes for this case. If there is something you can share, I can get the dev to look at it right away.

This is a much bigger ask. The tool is too limited for me to explain and document all the ways it fails. This definitely falls into the category of an internal expert testing project or an outsourced paid project. If you want to hire us to do this, we’ll happily provide you with a quote. We are very thorough and efficient, so having us do this could be of excellent value to you guys.

@gustojunk

When I use Gumball, sometimes right after using it, the entire session just hangs frozen for a few seconds; I still have control of the mouse, but nothing in the viewport moves or updates. This is not good.

IMO, this is the most worrisome and critical situation. Are you aware of these post-gumball delays?

G

[stevebaer]

@gustojunk

Are you aware of these post-gumball delays?

When the gumball drag operation completes, transformed objects are replaced in the document and an event is issued that objects have been replaced. This event is listened to by several parts of the Rhino user interface as well as 3rd party plug-ins. We try to optimize so we can efficiently handle this event, but it is impossible to control how much work 3rd party plug-ins do when this event occurs. Right now it is hard to determine what the offending piece of code is for your specific situation.

[keithscadservices]

Some of the form issues would literally take minutes of coding to solve. I would guess that whoever’s in charge of that is overworked. With all the tech lay-offs there’s gotta be some hungry programmers who would be more than glad to sweep through the forms and sort the loose ends out.

[stevebaer]

@keithscadservices

Some of the form issues would literally take minutes of coding to solve. I would guess that whoever’s in charge of that is overworked. With all the tech lay-offs there’s gotta be some hungry programmers who would be more than glad to sweep through the forms and sort the loose ends out.

It would be helpful to know what these specific issues are. It is nearly impossible to track with a long thread like this so if you can point me to what you are referring to I would appreciate it.

[keithscadservices]

The Linetypes dialog - the one accessed through the options menu is pooched. If you change the line thickness unit it doesn’t hold onto it. The dialog accessed through the “linetypes” commands works better but reverts to “pixels” when you duplicate a linetype. The later isn’t a big issue but it’s a sign of sloppy/rushed code - I mean the person that coded it is probably a hard worker but just over-worked.

There’s lots of little examples like these maybe I can just make a list. Although these don’t sound like big issues they can really gang up on us.

Edit → I did bring this up a while back too it never got fix… lost in the queu I guess.

[gustojunk (Gustavo Fontana)]

Thanks for the explanation. I understand, but it MUST be figured out and resolved. I see this current performance as unacceptable. Are we aligned that this is not a state of performance that we should accept? I don’t see how I could use V8 if your team is going to accept that this level of performance is the new normal.

G

[stevebaer]

Are you dragging a single object when you see this lag?

@gustojunk

Thanks for the explanation. I understand, but it MUST be figured out and resolved. I see this current performance as unacceptable. Are we aligned that this is not a state of performance that we should accept? I don’t see how I could use V8 if your team is going to accept that this level of performance is the new normal.

That’s exactly what I’m trying to do.

I’ll continue to work on an optimization for the object properties panel and we can see if this makes a difference in a couple days.

[Trav (Travis Serio)]

https://mcneel.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/RH-86626/Linetype-width-units-not-sticking

thanks for the report, unfortunately I never saw your first mention if.

I just issued a fix. Let me know it if still acts up.

[anon (am)]

I have not. Been busy with other work.

To be clear, my complaint above was in regards to the myriad issues I’ve had with Rhino 8 in months past that have mostly gone up in smoke. The object properties menu was an issue for me before Rhino 8.

[stevebaer]

As there aren’t any specifics in this thread beyond this issue that you posted above, I will need to go through your post history to find more

[stevebaer]

@gustojunk we have a diagnostic that could help narrow down where the lag after drag is coming from. I don’t want to adjust code and make attempts at optimizations when I don’t know what the cause of the problem is. Please try the following

• Start Rhino and open your model
• Run TestTrace and change Enabled to True
• Drag your objects around a few times. If we’re lucky in this case there will be a case where a large delay occurs.
• Run TestTrace again and this time choose the Save option. This will save a json file that will contain information about different events that occured and how long they took. Please send me this json file.

This json file is human readable and only contains a list of events in Rhino and how long they took.

[gustojunk (Gustavo Fontana)]

hi @stevebaer,

I had the problem twice today, but every time I try to repeat it to capture it on video, it does not happen. But I’m pretty sure the second time around, I still had the TestTrace running. It’s the last command I run before saving the test trace.

https://www.dropbox.com/t/KdhKOOHV1G6wvut0

testtrace .sjon file here:

test_trace_v1_gf_250322.zip (52.8 KB)

Please let me know if you see the day in that file.

G

[stevebaer]

The video doesn’t seem to work for me.

Thanks for doing this; we haven’t had many users try this tool out but I think it can become something very useful for figuring out what is causing lags in Rhino.

This didn’t point at a 20 second delay, but I do see a 1.5 second delay happening at some points in time which can be jarring and is not acceptable. I’ll see if I can tweak the tracing code to help point at exactly what is causing the delay. It does not look like it is the properties panel which I had assumed was at fault.

[gustojunk (Gustavo Fontana)]

Well maybe this tool is not caching the very long delay. Or by mistake I had stopped the trace process before the long delay happened. There were a few 1.5 sec delays but that wasn’t as back as the much longer one. Maybe it wasn’t 20 seconds but it was at least 10.

I’ll place closer attention next time. I’ll also check on the video soon and resend.

G

[stevebaer]

You are absolutely correct that this may be coming from something that I haven’t set up tracing for. I’m going through the code today and seeing if there are other suspect areas that we should be including tracing data.

[gustojunk (Gustavo Fontana)]

hi @stevebaer,

Re: video link. For some reason discourse now disables dropbox links? ( changed the link above with a dropbox file share link). In the video I show the type of situations when this happens, but of course it didn’t happen while recording.

This is the link i had shared: removethishttps://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2u2atbbk8ic7nxohg0c3q/test_trace01_gf_250322.mp4?rlkey=7eae3b4qs999txgegqb6lra8c&e=1&dl=0

if you remove the characters ‘removethis’ above and you paste that URL in another window you will see that it works, correct? Is this a bug or a regression on Discourse?

Re: The gumball transform bug: it’s really random, but it’s also really bad. Is this something unique to me? or have you had reports of this happening before?

G