Agreed. Working with R8 still feels like a Russian roulette.
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Tonight was especially bad. I had to figure some stuff out that wasnāt broken but definitely not intuitive and lacked documentation. Then I had some issues with text not keeping my font. Iām okay with an archaic text editor but when it has 10% the functionality of AutoCADās with 10x the bugsā¦
Then I had to sort something out that required me to deal with layersā¦ the layer dialog has a glitch where it jumps around on you. This bug is annoying because it seems like code was added to actually make it do this. Now Iām drawing rectangles in layout and the rectangles are invisible as I draw them. Hopefully that goes away with an open/close.
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that sums up just about how i experience v8, i am seriously considering switching back to v7, that just works in most regards, and it looks far less distracting (v7 mac)
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haha i feel you 
it is incredibly buggy. i am fighting line widths ā¦
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One concern I have with the line widths is that it doesnāt seem to be properly addressed in the YouTrack and I wonder if theyāve given up on it until R9.
Iāve tried to chill out because Rhino is quite ambitious. If you want extended features youāre going to have to deal with bugs. In the past they were more open about what was broken and what wasnāt. That was key to me because then I could just avoid/accept things that were broken rather than it hitting you square in the jaw when you have a deadline approaching.
The other thing Iām a little disappointed by is the dialogs. Lots of them are broken in ways that are totally fixable. A good once-over would be nice.
Iāve attached a file that, at least I think, breaks down the line issues. I had to chase my tail on this quite a bit because itās hard to figure out where the issues originate from.
Line Scaling Demo.3dm (250.3 KB)
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Hi McNeel team, here goes some feedback on V8 so farā¦ have a seat.
Iāve been using V8 extensively in a project, and I like it, most of the time, but stability and random hangs are still a problem.
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When I use Gumball, sometimes right after using it, the entire session just hangs frozen for a few seconds; I still have control of the mouse, but nothing in the viewport moves or updates. This is not good.
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I had a crash a couple of days ago that did not leave a crash report or a crash dump file. AFAIK. Rhino just vanished.
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Floating tabs (such as BoxEdit) that I keep on a separate monitor sometimes just close on their own. Itās just gone, and I have to make it visible again as a tab and pull it out.
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Shading also sometimes goes haywire, and some surfaces in some directions show a different color than the rest of the model. Changing to wireframe and coming back to shaded sometimes fixes it. Sometimes, it doesnāt, so I must explode and rejoin the object to update the shading to look correct.
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The layer panel behaves kind of erratically and self-scrolls when I add new layers, and things like that, this area feels very unpolished still.
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I tried using Push-Pull a few times, but it mostly failed, even in planar-only polysurfaces with some basic complexity. This tool and its solverās logic need a lot of work to be helpful.
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Like others said here, all things dimensions and text are very rough, too rough to even go into detail commenting them.
Custom workspace/tools: Iām a bit paralyzed on this aspect because I have no idea where things are stored and how to share them, and I keep seeing bugs on copied buttons and all that stuff. I have no idea how to replicate my workspace from my desktop to my laptop, bu t I have not even tried yet so Iāll have to explore some more.
Things that I like:
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The search on the layers panel is great!
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The head-up display shows me that Iām on ortho (the 4 white cross lines) is very nice
(ā¦but itās really sad that they are also white when I have white background, obviously a mostly untested feature.
Overall the craftsmanship that I see all around is very poor. Even in the nice additions like this white cross lines for ortho.
I think I will stay in V8, but Iām not sure. I hate sloppy software, and the slop here is still too much to be experiencing it every day. I donāt know how aware of this you are, or how important you think this is. But I think this current reality does not give me a positive impression of where things are at with Rhino. You will only change my mind with flawless execution.
I hope this helps.
G
5 Likes
After reading your post I realize how lucky I am. Are you on Mac or Windows? Luckily, my R8 is very stable and hasnāt crashed for a while. It used to crash if I left it open and left my computer idle. It seems to have stopped doing that. Lots of stuff could be Windows 11 which is proving to be the most annoying operating system to date (WTF Microsoft!!!).
This was killing my workflow. Iāve been undocking the layers panel and that seems to be helping. Maybe because the window is so big that it becomes a non-issue. Iāll check more into it. If I had a 3rd monitor this would be the work-around (for me at least). With only two monitors and often having to reference something on the second monitor, Iām having to open/close the layers dialog. Not terrible but it would be nice if it worked while docked. The layers panel also sometimes doesnāt remember its size. Sometimes bugs āteam upā on you: One will shove you onto the ground and another will come stomp on your nuts after.
Thereās lots of loose ends. Itās worrying to see āR9 WIPā posts when R8 needs so much work. I think even the little things (like various issues with the dialogs) might affect peopleās decision to stick with Rhino. In my own case Iām actually avoiding plugins just to make troubleshooting easier. Iām lucky in that most the stuff I encounter lately is more predictable and I just steer clear of it. I spent a TON of time trying to get prints to look right and just had to accept that certain things arenāt working.
1 Like
Hi Keith, Iām on Windows 11. My PC works very well and no other software has performance issues that I can feel, except for software that is known to be laggy/shitty, but I cannot even accept Rhino falling into that category. This is not why I chose to use Rhino as my everyday design tool.
I work w/3 monitors (3 X 27" 4K). So if Rhino behaved better in multi-monitor setups I would have a permanent workspace for 2 and 3 monitors, but thatās not the case. I just want the floating tools/toolbars/panels in my peripheral monitors to stay where I left them.
I know things are not perfect in the print area, but thatās ok for me/us. Itās great to quickly do āfake print layoutsā in model space and use blocks of parts you are making so you can see it updating and not have to deal with āLayout workflowsā. The whole layout stuff is a conversation for a different year/ future Rhino version; we have bigger fish to fry now 
G
Iām aiming to get the layout workflow working in R8 soon. It seems okay so far. Having the 2D linework in model space gives the absolute best control over line weights. Especially in R8 because the lineweights (and types) arenāt working quite right with anything other than curves.
For a while I thought I had it figured out: 1 single vector-based display mode - so no 2D linework in model space, no overlaying two viewportsā¦ but it just didnāt print reliably unfortunately. If I donāt use lineweights I might be able to get it to work and I might have to anyways. Thatās easier but then you only get limited lineweights of course.
Hi @gustojunk,
Can you help me reproduce?
I believe this issue has been logged - just want to make sure I havenāt missed something.
Thanks,
ā Dale
Hi @dale,
In my short time working with V5 doing project works (~40-50 hrs) Iāve noticed a lot of areas on the layer panel that seemed odd. This is why I said:
So thereās no one specific thing to point out, but rather Iām suggesting that you, your team, and contracted professional help needs to spend the time, focus, energy and attention to detail on this area to do this work. Thereās no workaround for this AFAIK.
Iāll give you just another example: I noticed that when I was working on my laptop, small 4K screen, if my layer panel was a bit too narrow, the narrower columns ( current and on/off) in the layer panel are not clickable ā¦I could keep going, but I wonāt, because I need to go back to run my company and work on my projects.
Question for you: Do you think it makes sense, that I ,a paid customer, of a product that shipped 16 months ago, should be the one pointing this stuff out? Iām not talking about one random bug here, Iām talking about a multitude of cases of unpolished, unchecked (or barely checked) and untested (or barely tested) work.
G
5 Likes
Dale was hoping to get clarification on something so we can make it work better for you. Does the issue that Dale referenced seem like the same thing you mentioned or something else?
I was hoping to collect your feedback and make sure there were actionable items we could focus on and improve.
Thank you; Dale put a small tweak in for this today. It isnāt a full fix so the YT issue is not marked as complete, but hopefully it will behave a little nicer for you in next weekās release candidate.
If you have an object you need to explode and rejoin to force fixing of the shading, Jeff and I would love to see it.
Same goes for this case. If there is something you can share, I can get the dev to look at it right away.
Asking paying customers to perpetually do your work at your place. What do we pay for, exactly, a part for the buggiest software on earth?
2 Likes
Hi @the_eraser
Nobody is forcing you to buy or use Rhino right?
Asking paying customers to perpetually do your work
Iād like to rephrase that to:
āAsking paying customers to provide specific real-world examples of issues in order to efficiently and effectively fix said issuesā
Did you also read the part where Steve wrote:
.. I can get the dev to look at it right away.
Most (big) software vendors have multiple layers of chatbots, faq lists, customer support and consultants to deal with customer feedback. Their goal is not to provide the best product for the customers, but the most profitable product for the shareholders.
-Willem
9 Likes
Most big software vendors have software that just works.
1 Like
The title for the buggiest software on earth is taken. Rhino is really only competing in the minor leagues at that sport.
I was trying to get a CAD clone to work for me. CAD clone as in a program that just replicates AutoCAD - that system has been around forever and shouldnāt be that hard.
This vendor advertises āperpetual licenseā - different versions cost at or over Rhinoās cost, again just for basic CAD. Worse yet they try to get people to buy āMaintenanceā which effectively defeats the purpose of having a perpetual license. The saddest part about their āmaintenanceā is it means they offer zero tech support to people who donāt pay, and they just stick their heads in the sand whenever someone comes to inform them of a bug. Bugs where everywhere ranging from not being able to do a simple 3D sweep to printing issues. Also, zero updates were provided throughout the year so you basically had to buy the next yearsā release in hopes that the bugs would be gone (they wouldnāt).
I wonāt mention this program because this isnāt the place but it used to be regarded as the best AutoCAD alternative. Most of that reputation was by way of guerilla marketing much of which being done by resellers.
And speaking of AutoCADā¦ yes $2,000 per year AutoCADā¦ The tech support is about 1/10th that of McNeelāsā¦ depends whoās working that day. Sometimes you get some entitled smartass, other times you get someone who cares and is knowledgeable but canāt do s**t.
The bugs areā¦ yaā¦ But if even half of them get fixed Iām going to be hauling ass. Iāve learnt a few things and built a few tools that will be game changes (for me) so long as a few loose ends get fixed. And if they donāt then maybe Iāll go crawling back to EvilDesk and live off potatoes and canned beans so that I can afford the subscriptions.
3 Likes
Iāve been figuring out how to deal with the layers dialog issues. Besides the printing issues this one has been kicking my ass. Undocking the layerās dialog doesnāt fix the issue but alleviates it because the dialog is way bigger. I added a button to my middle mouse menu for quick access. I also realized I can add another tab - and recently started using layer states.
Sometimes if youāre lucky you can find a work-around. Sometimes not. My properties panel was getting way to crowded anyways so even when the layerās dialog gets fixed I probably wonāt keep docking it.
There are lots of bugs but lots of solutions too. Its not ideal and sometimes you get double-teamed by multiple bugs. In this example the layer dialog sometimes doesnāt remember its size. I can live with that. Iām one of the lucky (luckier) ones I think the only bug(s) I canāt cope with right now are the printing issues thatās it. Everything else I can steer around.
