Unable to fillet this edge but why?

Sorry for going OT. I don`t really have any plight or issues. I love working in Rhino.

I just use the best tools for the job for me and for the organic shapes and filleted edges that I want in the very generous tolerances I have to play with t-splines with Rhino is really fast. I do understand that most others don`t have the luxury of being able to be so rough.

Was more commenting to @Et_Rec specifically about jewellery. Once again sorry for hijacking the thread.

This is topology that Jim must have started with to get his result.

No That is not what I started with.
I started with the model that Steve provided and that i also posted earlier:
FILLETSRF2.3dm (195.5 KB)

There is nothing wrong with the original model.
You don’t heed to make any changes to the model to create the fillets. The fillet radius needs to be less than 1 in order to be able to wrap around the original fillet radius of 1. I used a radius of .99.

If Steve’s original model had been made with corners rounded with larger radius then the fillets that you can add on top of that could also be made larger.
See file:
FILLETSRF4.3dm (364.8 KB)

Steve,

No it is not possible to turn on handles for a completed fillet, the command is not history enabled. Yet. In the current V6 Work in Progress there is an option to “Edit” fillets created with FilletEdge, so this should be in place when V6 is released, although for the moment it seems this only works if no changes have been made to the object since the fillets were created.

I think Stratosfear’s approach to rebuild the cylinder cap is the best way to go, I always like a single surface better than multiple surfaces for a host of reasons (the ability to project, pull or flow objects without them splitting over seams, ability to untrim holes, etc.)

However, I was interested in Jim’s approach because I never use FilletSrf, always FilletEdge, and didn’t realize it could work on something like this. What Jim didn’t mention was it is necessary to set the options to Extend=No and Trim=No, and of course I couldn’t make it work until I realized that. In this Video I started with the wrong options to show the unusable result, then show it working with the right settings. Note that the picks are not always on surfaces that touch, and the small top planer surfaces are skipped completely as they are consumed by the fillets. I’m using a fillet of .98mm here, not 1mm, as Jim explained.

I use FilletEdge because it is quick, especially with ChainEdges, allows for variable fillets, and works on corners where three edges meet. But it sure fails a lot, and knowing how to do it with FilletSrf will probably be useful. It took a bit more work, but I found I could mix in VariableFilletSrf as well:

FilletSrf will work in most situations where filletEdge fails and FilletEdge will fail way too often to even consider using it if
you are trying to get work done. FilletEdge is a waste of time.

If filletSrf was given just a tenth of the development time as FilletEdge has been given in the last 15 years, FilletSrf could be a very powerful tool.

Its not quick. When you have to redo the whole model to make it work that isn’t my idea of quick. And it is rare that you have the
option to turn a complex shape into single surface. So most of the time after you remodeled filletedge is still going to fail.

Oh yes … that would be really cool. :smiley:

Hi.
Mark, how do I view the Jing video at a size I can see all of it, ? I cant see it without scrolling up down and left right and so cant view it.
I love videos and thanks so v much for this, but for the first time ever, its half as big again as my screen zie, and I am running 1920 x 1200 which is BIG !

what I can see…
at 1:32 you select the end of the gulley and not the adjoining surface but the side of the cylinder, prior to that you did select the thin adjoining surface, it only gave a small fillet and didnt run along the entire semicircular end, I wouldnt have thought to choose a surface that wasnt adjoining, why was this selected ?
at 1:44 you avoid selecting the rounded tip and the adjoining surface, again following the edge round I would have picked them, so why do that ?

Do I understand it correctly that if I had chosen a different radius than 1 for the centre four edges, I could use a greater fillet radius ?
I tidied up my shape as per Stratosfear yet it fails with FilletSrf even with a small radius.

Maybe that was why.

McNeel…developers…As we are at V6, why is such an important command not dealt with and firing on all four cylinders by now…reading the comments on the pros and cons of it.

Steve

Steve,

I’m running a 2560 x 1440 monitor, I guess the video recorded at that size. I suppose I should run Rhino in a window instead of fullscreen when I record, I didn’t realize it would not adjust the size to the viewer’s browser.

Fillets won’t extend across surface seams. FilletEdge requires selecting an edge, and so you can only pick adjacent surfaces. But with the fillet radius set at .98, it has to extend down onto the side of the cylinder, and since that would require crossing the seam it fails. FilletSrf can bridge open space and takes two surfaces as input, so you can pick the end of the gulley and the side of the cylinder and then the fillet doesn’t have to cross the surface seam because you are leap-frogging over the middle surface.

Yes you are correct about the radius of the center four edges limiting the radius of the fillets. For a fillet radius of one, the edge of the fillet will be offset one unit into the surface. In this illustration, when we offset these curves to the inside at .9 units, the white curve becomes very small. At an offset of 1 unit the white curve disappears completely. Rhino can’t go any further because the radii would then cross each other at the point where the white curve disappeared and the filet would self-intersect and be invalid.

Hi Steve,
Sometime when I encounter these issues in my jewelry making I just pipe the edge curve, or Sweep1 if I need different radius, and split with the just created pipe. After that I blend to taste (adding shapes as needed) and it works fine for our trade. Yes another 30+ years jeweler here.
The 3 rails seems to be a missing feature that you may have encounter using JewelCad in the early days. Network can easily give you that power and also a Sweep2 using a temporary surface edge for continuity and then repeat on the other side.
Hard to explain and out of topic. My apology.

Jim,

All Rhino’s filleting tools could use more development, I think we can agree that filleting is a weakness in Rhino.

Figuring out which tools work best to achieve a given result is part of using any program. Your example here has helped me learn more about a tool I haven’t considered enough. FilletSrf has it’s place, and so does FilletEdge. I wouldn’t consider either a waste of time.

FilletEdge is pretty impressive at what it is good at, and, yes, quick.

  1. Invoke command
  2. Window Select
  3. Enter to accept
  4. Done!



People think Rhino’s filleting is weak because they are using the filletEdge command.
You can make any fillet in Rhino that other CAD programs make
but not with filletEdge,

FilletSrf is pretty bullet proof but it is slow. It would take very little development time to add improvements that would make it work faster. Just having the ability to create automatically all the successive fillets for tangent surfaces would be a huge time saver and would take very little development time to add that feature.

If the user is making a fillet between 2 surfaces and there is an adjacent surface tangent where that fillet ends it is almost a 100% certainty that the user will want the next fillet in sequence. And the the developer should already know where the user is going to have to pick with the mouse to make that next fillet surface, so why not just make the next surface in the sequence instead of making the user repeatedly click with the mouse to make the subsequent surfaces?

I don’t doubt that filletedge works in some situations, but
for me using FillettEdge is a waste of time. In my experience it fails 99% of the time in the type of things I model. Dealing with the failures wastes far more time than the little bit of time I might save when it occasionally succeeds.

How much of the filleting in the model below do you think would succeed with filletEdge?

Hi,
Bamboozled :cry:
starting with a revised extremely simple shape, cylinder with 2mm radiused edge and planar cap, so no issues there.
I then boolean split two cylinders across it.
(attached), then give 0.97mm fillet to four inner edges and find that one of the four ‘leaf’ shapes vanishes.
this is with trim yes and extend yes.

try extend no trim no as per [quote=“Mark, post:29, topic:29257”]
What Jim didn’t mention was it is necessary to set the options to Extend=No and Trim=No, and of course I couldn’t make it work until I realized that.
[/quote]
but then I dont get a brown fillet removing the edges I seek to soften, but a fillet under the surface,

try for extend no trim yes and one ‘leaf’ vanishes.

Somehow I worked beyond that, but what is correct setting to avoid that hole appearing ?

then I get intersecting overlapping fillets. at the Y junction. Why do tyhey form under the surface, they should replace the edge as they form ?

Attached storyboard (read top to bottom) of my pick order, where am I going wrong ? thought I had followed the video.
DEVELT OF cylinder 001.3dm (1.6 MB)

Steve

Steve,

In the earlier example, you had already filleted the center four ribs, and were left with a continuous edge to fillet. Now you are trying to fillet them all and then join the fillets, and having a problem where three edges meet at a point. Unlike Jim, I am not smart enough to fillet a three-edge corner using FilletSrf, but rely on FilletEdge, which can handle this.

The limit here on size is the distance from the end of the gulley to the seam with the cylinder, as the fillet won’t cross that surface seam. So I set the fillet at .9mm, and no problem. Video Here

Since the limiting seam is only where the cylinder meets the cap, you can make the other fillets larger if you like, FilletEdge accepts multiple radii Larger Fillets
(I hope these videos fit on your screen this time)

Hi ,
Thanks Mark,
Videos best way of seeing whats what, however Video is still too tall, unable to pause it without scrolling down then I miss what I wanted to pause it for !
widthways its well within. Wish Jing had spacebar etc for pause, hover mouse doesnt show pause control either.
Jing should have screen resize option as not everyone has even 1920x1200.

I see there is something I wasnt aware of, as you type the entire word FilletEdge you then see a list of options , and select BlendEdge, that doesnt appear if you are partway through typing FilletEdge then select the FilletEdge with mouse.

If FilletEdge is selected then BlendEdge isnt visible as a choice.

so far folk have been on about FilletSrf and FilletEdge, so what is BlendEdge in this method.

It does the trick ! A new tool I didnt know about, and as it appears only if typing fully FilletEdge, maybe others didnt either !

However using the 1.5 as in 2nd video I get a totally wild pattern compared to yours ON THE EXACT SAME OBJECT…why ?

I also managed to see you turned preview on, fleetingly but spotted it after eventually managing to pause Jing at the crucial time.

I then add handles 0.9mm at outer 4 midpoints same as yours and get result, though the lines differ from yours a bit and again why ?

Steve

You can size Jing any way you want when you record the video. You might be able to size the replay down by using ctrl with the minus key (standard browser size smaller control). The pause button in replay is in the lower left corner assuming you can see it on-screen.

–Mitch

Hi,
Having followed the steps here for BlendEdge, my result sees naked edges.:confounded:
No one else has such, I have started with a pure simple shape. same 1.5 and 0.9 as Mark. Why me ?
You had my shape mark, did yours have naked edges as shown, I followed exactly your steps.

Its just one pitfall after another.

see attached.


Now here is an interesting one !
How can I create an eliptical section fillet ? I see only a ball option, no means indicating its two dimensions.
Base of cylinder needs 2.4mm tall and 1.98mm wide to match shape I am replicating.
(see attached dims on item on base)
eliptical fillet need and naked edges 0pnt 9 and 1pnt5 BlendEdge command.3dm (1.1 MB)

Ref Jing, trying Ctrl and minus key, nothing resizes. cant see pause when viewing the key areas to study, the upper screen area.

Steve

Yeah, BlendEdge not getting it right here, even with contstant ‘radii’.

I have no idea what radii you’re applying where, but I see something is not working where FilletEdge does, thanks for the example.

-Pascal

Hi Pascal,
as per Marks video just above my naked post,
1.5 then add handles to the four tips each of 0.9 to correct the ‘nasties’.
see his video.

I had naked edges here though on use of FilletSrf prior to this.

Falling over on apparent simple shapes.

Steve

Steve,

  1. Although it may have appeared that BlendEdge was highlighted, I used FilletEdge, it was on the command line when I hit Enter.

  2. You got different results because you used BlendEdge, which maintains curvature continuity instead of the tangent continuity of FilletEdge, and creates a blend surface which is not an arc section like a fillet.

  3. As Pascal confirmed, and I get the same result, BlendEdge fails on this object at these 1.5 and .9 radii selections, leaving naked edges and tiny stray surfaces.

  4. If you want to invoke BlendEdge, just type it on the command line, or right-click the same icon as for FilletEdge on the Solid Tools toolbar.

  5. I don’t think Rhino has a tool for elliptical fillets, although BlendSrf could approximate, but maybe a simple approach like this: Elliptical Fillet

  6. When viewing Jing in a browser, look for a zoom control on the Settings icon (Internet Explorer) or Menu bar (Chrome) to adjust the size of the playback image in the browser window.

Mark=

Hi,
…and there was I thinking you were showing me an even better tool ::slightly_smiling: it sure looked like you had selected BlendEdge.

As for eliptical, I am surprised there is no eliptical shape option , I had to do it as you did it, before I saw your vid, because it was a simple shape, just to move on quickly, but should there not be eliptical option for Filleting, I THINK SO.

I wouldnt manage to do sweeps for other edges, thats why we have Fillet command, surprised we are at V5 and nothing but circular…oh !

I am Firefox and I don’t see a zoom control :cry:

Steve