For Rhino V6 wishlist

Well, I feel your pain.
I can not help you further, but maybe @pascal can help finding the right resource at McNeel to help you out.

Is it an option for you to use Sketchup for the final images?

Wellā€¦ My main goal is to see if i can do everything (or most of all things) in just RHINO. (since i bought this machine just for work, i am on travel to seek what software is best for me and for my machine specs. I have to say, since i start (self learning) in Rhino i found some great and useful tools which send me to the next level of my imagination and my projects. I found Rhino very very proficient in almost every field. Specially in architectureā€¦ But i work a lot of output files (PDF, PNG, JPG, etcā€¦ then mixed in Photoshop and get ready for final presentations, like big drawings and big architecture visualizations with renders. And i need GOOD QUALITY from output files. (i do renders, but i like more BLACK and WHITE drawings = more clean presentations). So i need that kind of shadows quality and so on.

I`m wonder if NEXT RHINO version come with this special tools on OUTPUT files (specially PDF vectors, like AUTOCAD quality.) I REALLY LOVE very nice FINAL QUALITY, when it is possible to read all lines in a drawing. EXPRESSION = GOOD DRAFTING PRESENTATIONS.

(for now, because i am on last days for final THESIS PRESENTATION, i have to send all my RHINO PROJECT to SKETCHUP. I am expert in there. More then Rhino, because i work on Sketchup for about 12 yearsā€¦ (and sketchup is now on 64 bits. It handles very good and smooth big files)ā€¦

After my presentation, when i come back to finish my PORTFOLIO for seek a position at some Architecture OFFICE outside my country (Portugal), i promise i will try to find a solution for RHINO gives me nice quality drawings. But now i have to keep on and onā€¦ TICK TACK- TICK TACKā€¦ time`s running.

I bet that RHINO (for its greatfull drawing capacities) have to be possible on that matter. If RHINO TEAM work on there it will earn more and more people. And speciallyā€¦ Everyone would love to have JUST ONE POWERFUL SOFTWARE that make everything inside (2D + 3D + Drafting + Construction + Renders)ā€¦ But i guess that is me dreaming.

PS: i have to be greatfull and give a big thanks to all that help me, in one way or other, on achieve more skills in Rhino. I want to keep learning, because i simply love it. :smile:
Ā«I hope my Architecture Teacher gone be interested in my work. (kind a nervouse)

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iā€™m on a mac so i canā€™t use your .INI files yetā€¦ i also donā€™t know what exact shadow controls windows rhino has compared to mac but i assume More control or the sameā€¦

anywayā€¦ it looks like your rhino export in example 1Āŗ has some sort of blur/softening applied to itā€¦ sketchup has none of that type of controlā€¦ if you want to get closest to copying sketchup shadows, set up rhino like this:

ā€¢ maximum sharpness
ā€¢ zero soft edge
ā€¢ no blurring
ā€¢ cleanest artifacts


export your files at 3x size of final image then resample in an image editorā€¦ (you might want to increase curve/edge thickness in the display mode or youā€™ll end up with some very fine linework upon scaling down)

for example, i want a 2000px wide image so i exported it at 6000px then resized in photoshop type app.

to me, this looks exactly like a sketchup export would:

YESā€¦ i have that kind of configurationā€¦ Have a look please.

I never get the same results with the same tuning display. This is really strange!! I have try everything. And Rhino keep doing what he wants. I am getting frustrated. Because a few days ago, i was able to get some nice quality. As you can see in some image that i post above. (try scoling a few and look for an IMAGE SECTION (with black fill) in PERSPECTIVE viewā€¦ Since that day, no more like thatā€¦ :frowning:

that should do it thenā€¦

so when you use -ViewCaptureTo File, export it larger than you needā€¦ like, if you want a final image to be 3000px X 1000px, enter those dimensions for Width and Height then for Scale, enter 3

(or- set Scale to 1 and pixel dimensions to 9000 X 3000ā€¦ it does the same thingā€¦ youā€™ll end up with an image thatā€™s 9000x3000)

then, open in an image editor and resize to your final dimension of 3000 x 1000.

in effect, doing that will apply Anti-Aliasing to the image (smooths out the jagged edges)


again, iā€™m on mac so all of this might not apply but itā€™s something i have to deal with both in sketchup and rhinoā€¦

in sketchup for mac, there is no anti-aliasing whatsoeverā€¦ not in the viewport and not in the exportsā€¦
in rhino for mac, there is anti-aliasing in the viewport but when using ViewCapture, no AA is appliedā€¦

(in other words, i have to do the same work around in both programs due to Anti-aliasing limitations)

iā€™m not sure about windows rhino but itā€™s possible no anti-aliasing is being applied with the ViewCapture commandsā€¦
?

Sory matte. The images that i post they have AA x8 turn onā€¦ And i have tried with no AAā€¦ The same results.
I Know about -viewcapturetofile (it is a very good think to have PNG high resolution)ā€¦ but shadows is getting very trouble hereā€¦ I don know why??? i Think i have a god GPU CARD (4 GB GDDR5 + 160GBpoĀ“s = GTX 780M)ā€¦ i dont want to think that this is possible an issue about my graphics. Somehow, i went to a search on GOOGLE, and i found that Nvidia`s crippled some GTX KEPLER CARDSā€¦ (fuck thisā€¦)

More i tweak, less results i getā€¦ I am getting tired of thisā€¦ I have noticed that if i change ā€œVideo Memory Usage/Shadow Sizeā€ to maximum; strange think but i get worst results. Then if i get back to less memory shadows wont change as it should beā€¦ OH GOD WHY!!! (shit shit shit)ā€¦ Doest this could be probably about the FILE SIZE? (because this one is real huge - i have it very clean and purged)

this is sort of confusing because we (or maybe just me) keep seeing different images containing problems you see but we donā€™t immediately know what youā€™re talking aboutā€¦ we should of all had an example file and a set view in order to discuss easier.

regardless of all thatā€¦
i donā€™t think you should be trying to do viewport captures (GPU ā€˜tricksā€™) for A+ quality presentations in the first place (such as a final thesis presentation :wink: ā€¦ )

you should be rendering themā€¦ hereā€™s an example of this ā€˜starkā€™ type shadow workā€¦ itā€™s pretty big (4200x5400) but the style doesnā€™t require any demanding lighting or materials so it can potentially render very fastā€¦ this one took about 35 seconds on a fast quad-core computerā€¦

(make sure to look at that :point_up: full size)


if you need to hurry up and get the images out and are sick of dealing with software right now, do your final exports via sketchupā€¦ but next time, i think youā€™ll be better off if you spend time experimenting with render settings until you find the look youā€™re after.

Hey Jeffā€¦ thanks again to keep trying help me here.

I found the reason why Rhino wont play good shadows on my file. I found there is because of my last BLOCK (Metal Grid Stairs) that i made yesterday. This is a bit stupid because i made this one like i made the rest of them. (in the end i will explode all my blocks and save another fileā€¦ perhaps it will result in 1GB File or moreā€¦ BUT, here are the final tuned display. Have a look please.

Nevertheless, and i have AA x8 turn on on that example, i found some sharp shadows edgesā€¦ AA seems to not work properly. I still miss the reason why.
QUESTION: Ā«Do you have your SUN turn ON?Ā» or your images are only with Shadows?
The image you post below are a -viewcapturetofile? or is a render inside rhino with rhino render engine?

It seems that you do not have SURFACE EDGES turn on!!?

I dont want RENDERS, it is not because i do not like, but it is because of my other 2 projects that i will post on thesis. And that other 2 are done. So i have to keep the same ā€œexpression drawingā€ like this:

and in fact i still have to learn how to get better results on Rhino Render Engine. I did not spend much time over there.

("this is sort of confusing because we (or maybe just me) keep seeing different images containing problems you see but we donā€™t immediately know what youā€™re talking aboutā€¦ we should of all had an example file and a set view in order to discuss easier.)
Do you mean it is better that i send you a small example of my file, specially were there is troubles, so you can see for yourself and perhaps find a solution?

If you still there tell a better way to send you a file

(sorry for my ā€œnot so good englishā€ā€¦ sometimes fell miss understood!! :frowning: )

[quote=ā€œArchitex, post:150, topic:3708ā€]
BUT, here are the final tuned display. Have a look please.
<img src=ā€œhttps://global.discourse-cdn.com/mcneel/uploads/default/13715/73df80161eaf3815.pngā€ width=ā€œ690ā€ height=ā€œ420ā€>

Nevertheless, and i have AA x8 turn on on that example, i found some sharp shadows edgesā€¦ AA seems to not work properly. I still miss the reason why.[/quote]

forget about AAā€¦ downsize the image afterwardsā€¦ hereā€™s your picture at 900px wide instead of 2670pxā€¦

downsizing it will smooth out the jagged edgesā€¦ if you want your image to be 2670px wide, export it at 8000px wide then resize it afterwards in an image editorā€¦ (i keep saying this but youā€™re not trying itā€¦ please try it :wink: )


mac rhino doesnā€™t have a ā€˜sunā€™ā€¦ iā€™m using a _DirectionalLight which is basically the same thing with less controls.

[quote]
The image you post below are a -viewcapturetofile? or is a render inside rhino with rhino render engine?[/quote]

itā€™s a render with the built in render engine.

[quote]
It seems that you do not have SURFACE EDGES turn on!!?[/quote]

i donā€™tā€¦ i canā€™t turn on edges in a render on macā€¦ i have to use a work around to show edgesā€¦ i think you (windows) can do it without a workaroundā€¦ i thought we were talking about shadow quality though :wink:

itā€™s okā€¦ i mean, iā€™m the one that only knows how to speak one language :wink:

Ć©Ć©eĀ“ :slight_smile:
Yes we are talking about shadows. And still going onā€¦ Tomorrow i will come back, with a small sample of my file for you. If you have time to analyse of courseā€¦ I will send you some (closed polysurfaces were i find issues that we are talking about). Then it gone be better to really see what i stress about. I hope your MAC do magic. (if yes, i think i will be frustrated about having waste some good money in this workstation laptop machine configuration).
I will send you (that STAIRS with metal grid) and other objects.

Just one thinkā€¦ it better to have a directional light or keep using shadows from display mode options? (because if i leave that options turn ON i have notice that everytime i spin rotate view the light come after me. Like if i am the sun. And the only way to prevent it is TURN SUN ON, so it stop=static the light provide from the sun. Shadows wont rotate when i move the look view.

Wellā€¦ we talk tomorrowā€¦ I have to take a nap (it is 04:28am in Portugal)ā€¦
Thanks again. :smile:

GOOD MORNING JEFF

here are the link for you to download the STAIRS example

I add some NOTES into the file. I hope there will be possible to read in MAC

If notā€¦ I send you the stairs made in BLOCK so you could find for yourself the shadows trouble. make some tests.

Then, try to explode that block and test shadows again.
When you have time, come back here to say something about.

Thanksā€¦ See you later.

yeah, later todayā€¦ i have some stuff i have to model :smile:

Did you see the file i post on a LINK?
When you have time, I thank youā€¦

Mean time i am leaving here an image of how the work keep going. (file very very huge = 1.125,233KB = 1GB)ā€¦ I wish i have a QUADRO just to test this file so i can see if that professional cards handle this big file

funny thingā€¦ i realise that when i post a PNG here inside the forum some (black tone filter) was add to the image. It does not have the same TONES the one i have inside computer and the other i post ā€¦

@jeff can you see if you can make a display mode that mimics the pdf ā€œillustrationā€ mode, as it is really fast, and therefore good enough for many situations. It does neither require any calculations, so it would be good for large projects.

Finally i get it right. This on is made by tuning a completely new display mode and explode all blocks. Of course the file size was increased a lot. But i get better results from -viewcapturetofile

(but still can not tune a good and smooth edge shadow. for example like JEFF did on his MACā€¦

IMPORTANT INFO:
(i am done with my patienceā€¦ i dont get it???) HELP HERE PLEASE. i run out of seek for a solution. I have try everything.

Here are the file.
http://we.tl/9HmcRcvL6t

this is probably the best i can get out of mac rhino right nowā€¦ the shadows are fine but at this size, itā€™s the linework which gives me trouble (i mean, the lines are fine tooā€¦ but if weā€™re playing perfectionist, the lines could be smoother :wink: )

i used the built in renderer to get only the shadows then layed a transparent background _ViewCapture of the lines over itā€¦

with the renderer, you donā€™t have to do anything to the blocks as they generate good shadows without exploding.

hereā€™s a link to a .png at 6000px wideā€¦ (i feel bad for embedding these huge images at the forum so i dropboxed it : )

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16524160/atex6000px.png
(download (~8MB) and view at full size)


i can give a little tutorial on how i did that but i donā€™t know how well it will work on windows (iā€™m pretty positive it will workā€¦ the steps might be different though)

hmmā€¦ i donā€™t know what pdf illustration mode isā€¦ if itā€™s a button i push, that button doesnā€™t exist on mac : )

i do have a variation of Pen which looks a lot like the picture you posted and used it for the png at the link above.

hereā€™s the steps i took to get those shadows.

1- _DirectionalLight (windows can probably use the sun for this)


2- a viewport display mode that looks like thisā€¦ this is basically pen mode with a solid white backgroundā€¦ no shadows.


3- -ViewCaptureToFile of that :point_up: with transparent background.


4- Rendered viewport has the super crap shadows due to the blocksā€¦ bring up the render settings and set ambient light color to something with a light toneā€¦ this will over expose the render leaving you with only the shadowsā€¦


5- the render will come out like this: (under a minute to render at this large size)


6- in an image editor app, use Levels or Curves (or similar) dialog to adjust shadow tones to taste.


7- lay the lines file over the shadow file

link to full sized image-- duplicate link from a few posts ago


thatā€™s all i got

1 Like

Wowā€¦ a big help for sureā€¦

Can you provide you ā€œPEN modeā€ configurations? (or INI file?)
How do you make a PNG (6000x6000px) + a render (rhino default engine) with the same 6000x6000px resolutions took only 1minute?

I will keep insist and try more and moreā€¦
_a thousands of Thanks Jeff.
all the best

ANOTHER DISPLAY ISSUE FOUND:

No matter what display mode i choose, it will not result on correct order lines". It is suppose Rhino draw covered lines properly. Like Rhino did on the right side of that trusses column.
Any solutions?